Cavern Crew plot planning

[fernleaf]

I decided to open this for all who are interested in starting a big plot with the characters. I already opened the possibility with Martin appearing to the ferret.

[Caterpillar]

Did someone say "a big plot"? *pops from the ground* Count me in! xD

...As I said in Cbox, I'm dying to get here in LoRA some big action. I mean BIG. An of course in Redwall-like-style with riddles, journeys and of course with the grand battle to vanquish the evil once and for all... All those who have read the books know the trill ^^

So what ideas do you, my dear fernleaf, have? (Or all you that have come here read this thread) I take it you have some plans, as you're already brought up Martin The Warrior? ^^

[fernleaf]

I'm not exactly sure, except for the fact that Martin the Warrior doesn't appear to anybody unless there's a great danger either to the Abbey, Salamandastron or some surrounding area. Fernleaf still doesn't understand the message, as the only clear word he heard was 'forward.' Maybe another had the same vision or dream.

It's going to involve Martin's sword. Fernleaf is going to have to be convinced that he will have to fight, as he takes his oath to the Badger Lord too literally. He vowed never to bear weapons to harm any goodbeast, and he thinks it involves not bearing weapons at all. His hornbeam staff can be used as a weapon, but eventually when the Sword comes into his possession through a chain of events I don't know yet, he's going to be going through some moral dilemmas.

[coolcoyote]

Woo! Just keep a close eye on the sword around Baro, else you might find the fox missing one morning and the blade replaced with a small note saying IOU ^^

I kid I kid, mostly <.< I have too much fun playing jerk alts and sowing seeds of chaos

[unknownsoldier]

Lolz, maybe a foreign villian appears, trying to conquer all of mossflower?

[coolcoyote]

ooc Ha! That would be cool. For all seriousness though, I suspect you have a plan worked out but if it doesn't toss a wrench in the plan or if you need someone to complicate matters and steal the sword from the party, or sell them out, or....well anything of that nature I gladly vollenteer Baro ^^

[fernleaf]

well, you could, but disaster always happens to those who steal the sword. In the novels I read, when that happens, there's a trail of bodies of the vermin who do steal it. But you can try. As Dirty Harry says, "do you feel lucky today?" hehehehehe....

[coolcoyote]

Lol thanks. I like a challenge I made bark with several brothers and sisters i can switch to just in case he did get stabbed, eaten by beasts, or executed by wood landers XD

Still, it all depends on what happens in the story. I would say so far a 50% chance depending on the situation or how well he gets along with others ^^

[Caterpillar]

Baro seems slick enough to avoid being killed by this Martin sword's "curse" and let the baddier bads take the hit for him xD

Back on the matter in hand. The villainous villain is of course the essential thing since he's the very reason why Redwall's peaceful life has been compromised. So we need more than just a small thug. Trying to take over the Mossflower sounds vile enough. While stealing the Martin's sword may not have same kind of territorial impact, it's grave crime nevertheless since for redwallers the swords is utterly important. I doubt they just sit around when they notice it's gone. Both of those ideas would work very well as a plot. ^^

For a villain, I can donate my creation Draggan as he's horde lord of some sort and twisted enough to the job. Still, I'm not sure if I want him to be the main villain, since those are bound to die in the end -- and I might still need him after this! -- but he can play part of lesser villain. Maybe a ally for this meaner one who will rally his troops in the Mossflower or be behind the thievery of the Martin's sword.

What all of you think about the classic Redwall-road-trip-theme? Basically it means a small group of individuals sets on journey: maybe they are the persuaders sent to retrieve the stolen Martin's sword or something else... But while they are gone some great peril threatens the Redwall and beasts within its walls have to fight their own fight. This way there is wider possibilities to everyone participate in the Big Plot and tale will have multiple heroes. ^^ Of course this plot works best if there is multiple characters wanting to participate. If it's only few, then maybe the journey-theme is enough?

The question is what kind of destiny you wish your character have in this Big Plot? Fernleaf already shared his wishes about the plot's development for Fernleaf and I don't have objection in that.

As for me I'm pretty sure Steck would jump right away it the change to go great heroic adventure (so he could make tale out of it afterwards). On the other hand I don't know yet which side Knar and Errot will land in this story. Not until I know who's the main villain and which are his connections. If Draggan is one of the plot's villains, then it's clear that Knar (and Errot) will oppose him - even if that means siding with the goody-good-doers (I kinda of like the idea xD). If Draggan isn't involved in the Plot -- then Knar could be siding with the villains. Maybe he could be leader of the group tasked with the mission to steal the sword (Baro could be in that group too) as well be charged to ensure the sword reaches its destination. ^^

[coolcoyote]

Bark only wants tasty treats to eat from life ^^ For plots simple works best in the, at least to hold it together. Me I tend to over complicate plots. For example I would have suggest Red wall was the bad guy or Fern leaf had to save Red wall from itself by stopping them from going to war or killing innocent vermin etc etc. But baro is available for what ever plot you guys decide :3

[fernleaf]

wow, these are great ideas! So far, we're loaded with villains, except for the hedgehog. Are there any  good  ones, from Redwall, Mossflower or Salamandastron  who could accompany the  two that are here so far?

[Caterpillar]

Well, if it's the sword-thievery we choose, maybe there would be a big reward for those who bring the famous sword to this sly villain? Would it motivate Baro enough to join in the mission? ^^

I too love complicated plots, but as coolcoyote said, simple plots works best. In a way a plot where the Redwalle is wrong-doer is interesting, but I also think it's the harder concept to create as the Redwall is peace loving community. We would need some seriously hot-blooded redwallers so the plot would work out. "The Bad Guy in the Redwall"-plot is also workable idea, but would it limit the participant characters to be more or less goodbeast or redwallers as this plot would no doubt happen inside Redwall Abbey? (and I really can't see why Knar would butt in Redwall's business)

And yes we'll need some more "good guys". We're bit short in those. xD
If we don't get enough members' characters, the problem would be solved if we make couple of Redwall NCP. After all we're probably going to need lots of NCP-vermin so why not fill in some redwallers as well.

[fernleaf]

Here's what I can see. Fernleaf is convinced he is never to fight again, but Martin is pointing him to the abbey. It's coming out to him that he has to be convinced to be a warrior again, but this time for the good of those around him. He doesn't know his vow to be peaceful and not to bear weapons to harm any goodbeast doesn't forbid him to defend the Redwallers and Mossflower. Fernleaf needs to revive his warrior spirit but this time for good, as Martin is directing him to do.

We can still involve Knar as they meet him out there. The scene in Redwall itself can be brief and they set out, and the sword is stolen. There is a horde out there threatening Mossflower. Knar maybe has to choose between the lesser of two evils and join up with the company. Say, the leader of the horde is a personal enemy or something, or somebody they all hate. (I'm currently re-reading Pearls of Lutra, with the emperor Mad Eyes that everybody wants dead, and it's giving me ideas of what this horde approaching is like. Just a suggestion.)

And coolcoyote is right. A simple plot works best. Just some ideas. Knar can be looking for somebeasts to oppose this leader and his horde, whoever it is, so doesn't have to enter the Abbey himself.

And NPC's seem to be the way to go.

[coolcoyote]

The foundation should always be simple but thats no reason we cant complicate the story in other ways ^^ So, from what I can gather we have decided that the sword will be stolen, and fernleaf will have to become a peacefull beast instaed of passifist. I am going to assume that you are GMing this mission Fernleaf? o.O

Also if or if your dont want Baro to steal the sword send a page, or personal tell or...what ever its called here, to me so we dont give people too many spoilers

As for NPC's I love playing minor characters such as minions or side alts, I /can/ play the npc horde leader but I prefure not to. One, he would not be the standard Redwall villain. He would have some motive beyond greed, or rather letting his greed twist his motives and morals into thinking that decimating redwall is good for mossflower. And two, I tend to play those personalities so easily it kind of disturbs me.

Not tooting my own horn or anything, just saying, playing the supreme bad guy would not be a confortable fit. If I need to, sure, no problem, if not though I think plenty of others will jump at the chance to play the bad guy ^^

[Caterpillar]

It seems we go with the 'Stolen Sword' -Theme as no-one objects it. ^^ As for who's GameMaster, I think all players take equal responsibility carry on the plot in their posts -- but it wouldn't hurt have appointed someone survey the whole thing, making things go forward if plot gets stuck. I'm not saying the GM has to think the plot-twist all by him/herself or know exactly how things will turn out: here GM is also player so I bet he/she wants also to be surprised by plot twist created by other players. Or do you agree with me?

So what you think Fernleaf? Want to be GM? You started this thread so you might as well take the mantle. ^^ (of course not pushing it to you if you don't want it)


Thought it over and over again how best involve Knar (and Errot) in the plot and while many good ideas popped in mind, I think I mostly liked the one where Knar would be a part of group that steals the sword's from Redwall. That plot just have so much potential as these two groups can have clash with each other before the chase ends in the villain's lair. The problem was that Knar is currently on a mission of training Errot to become worthy Grendel Commander, so he wouldn't stray from that duty easily. It's not like him to desert his responsibility and go do the dirty work of other vermin lord instead. And he really isn't a beast easy to bossy around to do someone else's bidding. But if Errot's life was on the line, it would be whole different matter...
Long story short: how about Errot gets captured by our villain, who then offers Knar a deal: he's willing to let the boy go if Knar first helps him to get what he wants: the sword of Warrior Martin from Redwall. (and this way I can explain Errot's absence from Knar's side) This way Knar is kinda a bad guy - but kinda isn't.

Coolcoyote, you can then take care the side alts if that's the most confortable for you. If no-one else is up to it, I can create and play our main villain (for now let's put Draggan in the corner). We'll need some small bios from every NPC-characters so everyone will know who they are, what they look like etc. But first thing to know - and little by little we're getting closer the biggest of the questions of all - who IS the villain then? Who lusts for Martin's swords and why? What you like him to be? Is he or she someone who is obsessed of collecting pretty, famous things and artifacts? Or is the villain a horde leader who believes carrying the great warriors weapons/armors will make their skill part of him and turning him greater warrior? Or is it just for vengeance upon Redwall? Possibilities are endless here...
(sorry Fernleaf, I haven't read Pearls of Lutra, so I'm little bit lost what kind of evil mastermind you're talking about - you need to tell more ^^)

I can also volunteer in NCPng the authorities of Redwall: Abbot or Abbess, whichever is currently in position. As we need someone to send the adventurers on their journey and then welcome them back as a heroes. For that I have to contact Rausaro and ask if it's okay to create NPC Abbot/Abbess for Redwall since technically there already IS a Abbot-character - but his player haven't been around for two years so I'm not sure if that character has become outdated.

[fernleaf]

I've never been a GM, but I'll go for it. Of course, expect me to be easygoing as one. That's the fun of RP'ing, rolling with the curves each of us throws at each other. As for Pearls of Lutra, here's a link which tells of the story. It has the most evil villain I have heard of, Ublaz (Mad Eyes) Emperor of Samptera:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pearls_of_Lutra

I'm no good at doing villains, so you've got the job of doing the main one if you like.

These ideas sound great!

Yep, I haven't heard from the one playing either the Abbot or the Badger Lord of Salamandastron, so, with Rausaro's approval, we may need to NPC both of them, unless I hear from Fawn, who plays the last Badger that this board has had.

I'd say the second option, a horde leader who believes carrying the Sword will make their skill part of him and turning him greater warrior. Of course, all three options fit together.

If I don't hear from Fawn, I'd probably NPC a Badger Lord.

[coolcoyote]

Lol GMing is actually fairly easy. And we are all partial GM's in this like cat said so we are here to help each other out.

If you want to flex the warlord muscles Cat and run the main villain I say go for it ^^ I'll handle lackies and minnions. Once you decide on what you want to bring as a villain I'll taylor make the more important lackies for you. I just need to know how many I should make, is it a large army we are dealing with or small band of villains? Are they tribal, barbaric, unifor soldiers?

As for motive, quite honestly I will be happy with what ever you make ^^ He is your characater after all If you want suggestions though I find that villains who twist good motives to excuse their actions are pretty easy to play while leaving a memorable impression on others.

FOr example a thief steals food to keep his family from starving, a guard at redwall may take a bribe for much the same reason.

A warlord may be attacking villages to unify the land under one banner to bring peace to the land. And those beasts that get driven out of their homes may raid other villages for supplies and recruits to help in the war effort. Those who refuse to join up or give supplies are 'cowardly traitors' who then get robbed or killed.

Or if you want to play the classic Cluny type villain go for it. It's as much as your story as it is ours ^^

[fernleaf]

Go for it, Cat! And coyote, you'll do great with the lackies and minions. I'll leave it up to you on how many.

[Caterpillar]

All hail to our MG! Cookies for everyone!


For now I suppose that our villain will be some kind of tribe-leader as tribes usually have their spiritual believes and rites, and the whole plot would make more sense if the troops believe same as their leader. Because what is the point in wearing dead warriors' armors or weapons if no-one else is believing they're making you unstoppable?

I myself prefer villains that use their brains, so it's very possible we're going to have a manipulative bastard - who have ways to force others bend in his will. x)

..In fact, I do already have a vermin that I can propose as our main villain. Vermilion, the leader of Redglade-tribe. They hail in the North Lands, in the mountains that borders the Mossflower woods. Aaand because I'm so lazy, I just quote what I have wrote about them in the thread I'm having with coolcoyote. So everyone may know what kind of vermin-group I'm talking about.... ^^

One of the biggest vermin groups were Redglades. The clan's vermin painted their fur with red marks and usually wore something red in their clothing. They prosperity over other groups weren't only thanks to their cunning leader, but also thanks to their stronghold, that was particularly impossible other clans to invade.

It was called Fangfort. Redglade's leader Vermilion had found it back the days when Redglade was just a small wandering group of bandits. Now, in safety of their lair the group had grown into a size of small army.

The name of the stronghold was well-earned: the entrance to the hideout was mouth of cavern which was guarded by stalagmites. Those sharp, pointy boulders rose from the ground and hanged from the ceiling so the walking through the entrance was like walking into open mouth of giant stone-beast. Those stalagmites offered Redglade's guards good hiding places and lookout-spots, so no-one left or entered without being seen.

Inside the cave many camp fires and torches lit up the darkness, making it easy to see without trouble. The soil in the massive cave was smooth white sand and many tents had been built upon it. But what made Fangfort the most special, was the small town carved right into the cavern's rocky surface. Some were like small square-shaped cottages with doorways and small windows, piling up on each other forming a huge, angular fortress. Some were only tunnels that kept going and going into depths of stone with twists and turns and side-paths that easily lead beast astray.

The Redgladers paint their furr with red markings. So if some-one sees the thieves when they're stealing the sword and describes them afterward, Steck will know the culprits were Vermilion's troops as he has encountered them before. More importantly, he will know where the Fangfort is located and can be a guide.

...So here we would have a villain, his army and stronghold, all already set, only needing a bit more developing. But I think basic are good. It would be easier to use character which characteristics I already know.

So what do you think?

[coolcoyote]

I approve Heh, Baro would know of them too, since Baro is rping with Ferleaf in the pressent I think our adventure with Steck and Baro escaping their strong hold can be set in the past XD

They all wear red and they are northlander tribal? Im thinking the lackies I make for you are going to be like Pikes in appearence with some viking thrown in. Fur armor and clothing combined with some iron weapons. With maybe a few bead vests and stone like weapons thrown in for good measure.